Saskatoon real estate: Week in review (March 24-29 2008)
Residential listing activity picked up the pace this week with a total of 164 single family homes (houses) and condominiums being offered for sale on the Saskatoon MLS. Total active listings in the residential category finished the week at 470 units including 298 houses and 127 condos. An additional 50 properties are displaying the “conditional sale” flag. Though still a relatively small number, the Saskatoon real estate market didn’t see inventory build to this level until into August during 2007. In fact, at this time last year there was a total of 254 listings including both active and conditionally sold, so there are more than twice as many Saskatoon homes available now as compared to the end of March last year.
Saskatoon real estate sales remained brisk with 94 homes reported sold on the local MLS, up from 86 the week before. A larger number of sales in areas 4 and 5, combined with fewer sales in area 1 brought average selling prices back under the $300,000 mark.
Overbid activity was down some over the previous week with 46 of 94 Saskatoon homes (49%) reporting sale prices that exceeded the asking price. During the same week last year we were up around 55% but the average overbid was a little lower at $14,076, compared to $16,130. You may recall that the market really began to heat up through April and May last year with average overbids topping $20,000 and $25,000 respectively.
Should we expect more of the same in 2008? It’s a pretty tough call and most would admit that they’d have never dreamed that we’d be where we are today. Logic has failed us over and over during the last 18 months so I can’t say I’d be totally surprised by another insane spring. On the other hand, I think that the sales numbers over the next couple of months, perhaps beginning with March, will finally start to show some weakening in demand. If the current inventory trends continue on an upward swing, we should start to see the pressure coming off of prices earlier this year. Given the massive deterioration in affordability over the past two years, the troubled North American economy and the fact that most major real estate markets across Canada are starting to experience at least some weakness, I can’t say I’d be surprised if our “suddenly” isn’t looming just around the corner.
Notable sales
- Meadowgreen bi-level, 972’, very dated, no garage goes $53K over list at $248,500.
- North Park bi-level, 820’ with a single garage, dated, sells $40K over at $280,000.
- Avalon area 1.5 storey, 952’, no garage, a stone’s throw from the freeway sells for just over $267,000.
- Massey Place apartment, 1,050’ goes 20K over at $220,000.
- Confederation Park 4-level split, 940’ without a garage fetches $295,000.
- Lakewood apartment, 868’ sells for $250,000.
- Adelaide Churchill bungalow on busy street, 1,004’ and no garage brings just over $328,000.
See a Google map displaying the boundaries of Saskatoon real estate “areas” here
Data collection and calculation for our statistical reports
I’m always happy to answer your Saskatoon real estate questions. All of my contact info is here. Please feel free to call or email.
Follow our daily updates on Twitter @SaskatoonHomes.
Norm Fisher
Royal LePage Saskatoon Real Estate
104 comments so far. We'd love to hear your thoughts.
May 15th, 2009 at 8:36 AM
Wowzers “Lakewood apartment, 868’ sells for $250,000.”
I’ve been tracking used apartments in that area for 3 years and that has to be a new record.
I see no slow down in Saskatoon’s future. The above would be considered a bargain in the other major western Canadian cities, of which Saskatoon is rapidly becoming a leading member. With the best forecast economy in the country (maybe North America?) and the lowest prices in western Canada, I think we’ll see a similar spring to last year. 500 or so listings is still not that many.
May 15th, 2009 at 8:38 AM
Callum,
You seriously don’t see a slow down in Saskatoon? I think there will be major slow there within a year. I know it’s cliche, however we need to always look to the west, i.e Alberta, to determine where Saskatoon is going to go. 3 years ago Edmonton took off like gangbusters and prices were out of control (like in Saskatoon Currently), it was a sellers market. But now if you look at things, prices are dropping by the day, because of high cost and i think one major player are double mortgages. People upgraded their homes thinking they will be able flip their homes no problem. Now with the slumping housing market people are taking major hits to the prices they “figured” they would get for their current homes. I believe that Saskatoon is going to follow their lead once again, we are always 2 years behind them and well the 2 year benchmark of their slumping house prices is approaching within a year. Also I believe that people in Saskatoon might also be in the upgrade their house mode, therefore there will be more desperate sellers in the near future to avoid the double mortgage dilemna.
May 15th, 2009 at 8:38 AM
It’s a big hunk of cash for sure. To be clear, this apartment was in “Ash Creek” so it’s fairly new. Not one of those Kingsmere Boulevard ones.
You’re right that 500 listings is not a lot, though over many recent years it has been enough to keep price growth more closely tied with inflation. Also, just a reminder that incomes are also lower here when compared to most places in Western Canada. All things considered we are getting just as expensive as most other cities, except perhaps those which are furthest west. Vancouver and Victoria will always bring a far bigger buck unless we figure out a way to get us some mountains, and maybe an ocean.
May 15th, 2009 at 8:38 AM
I think the slow down will come in a different form than everyone thinks…with young talented money making workers leaving the provinces leaving only investors and older folks and some yuppies. Anyone that is independant and has plans for thier lives will realize they can’t make them happen in this province out of the lack of amenities as well as the lack of affordable housing. It’s not something that i think is in stone but who knows, anything could happen.
May 15th, 2009 at 8:39 AM
Jesse G: In-migration is still strong in Sask.
Calg/Edm active listings have exploded to be sure. Saskatoon is definitely up this year but demand appears to still be there. Will listings reach 1,000 by the summer? Who knows, they could, I think you’ll still see price increases even if they do reach that number…
May 15th, 2009 at 8:39 AM
Callum,
How could price increase if listings increase? That makes no sense??? Saskatoon is getting comparable to Edmonton and Calgary, however people there don’t make the type of money as people in those cities do. I think first time home owners don’t have a chance to create a worthwhile lifestyle in Saskatoon. People will have a nice house, but living off mac and cheese. i could be there with my $150,00 a year, but instead I’m investing, going on trips across the globe and loving life!!
May 15th, 2009 at 8:39 AM
Weco said “How could price increase if listings increase? That makes no sense???”
I know, it makes no sense but it’s happened all over Western Canada.
That’s great Weco, your choices are your own. No one forces anyone to buy a house. Lemme just say with a 150K income life would be sweet in Saskatoon, in my humble opinion.
May 15th, 2009 at 8:57 AM
Callum,
150K/per would be sweet in my opinion too, but I don’t live in Saskatoon on a regular basis, only 8 days a month. I work in Fort McMurray. My flights are covered from my company and i have a $4000/month living allowance on top of that income. I wish I could make that in Saskatoon, however the greatest job offer i’ve had is $85k/per and was fairly recently.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:04 AM
Well Weco… think there might be a few more like you here in Saskatoon? Maybe that’s partly why our values have increased. Long range commuters, going to the oilpatch and calling here home. I’m sure it’s just a small portion of people but I hear of regular flights heading to Fort Mac and up north fairly regularly. I’m curious how big this segment might be.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:22 AM
callum,
“I know, it makes no sense but it’s happened all over Western Canada.”
I don’t think this is happening in Alberta and BC right now, at least from what I’ve heard. A friend of mine who moved to Calgary last year and has a real estate license says prices have definitely dropped there. There are tons of entry level homes for sale and very little selling. Familiar with areas in both markets, he thinks Calgary and Saskatoon are about on par price wise in that category.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:22 AM
Todd,
I think there are quite a few people like Weco around but there can’t be much question that those who should be buying entry level homes are completely squeezed out. That’s bound to take a toll eventually and if people do stop coming, we’re screwed. Again, I don’t see anything happening that would leave you upside down. There has been some big gains since you bought but I’ll be surprised if we don’t see some kind of a correction when the current run ends.
P.S. I’ve said this before.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:22 AM
Jesse, let me know when the bus is leaving this greed filled town and I’ll climb aboard with you. I am to the point of becoming physically sick watching what is happening with our city.
I went and looked at a few condo’s this weekend to get a feel for what is out there this spring, and I was amazed that every realtor I met with tried to pitch their properties in terms of how much I would be able to flip it for this summer and move onto something better. Is this what Saskatoon has become? To become an entry level home owner do you have to take part in this whole buy high and hope that some other “Greater Fool” (thanks Garth!)comes along and pays more, and repeat this process enough times until ones housing becomes affordable? I know this sounds insane, but I almost long for the days of the NDP / Liberal government when our economy was not near as fit as I could actually afford to live comfortably. With higher gas, food, and most of all, insane rent hikes, it seems now a person has to work a lot of extra hours just to get close to the quality of life we had just two years ago.
But I guess this is what we call progress here in Saskatoon.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:24 AM
You are correct. I should have qualified my remarks with “at first”. The market can take an increase in listings for awhile. In Calg/Edm however we’re seeing 4 and 500 percent increases in actives (even more? haven’t looked for awhile). Prices went crazy in Vancouver in Feb despite a %10 increase in listings. Saskatoon has seen a 100 percent increase in listings since last Feb and prices are rocketing higher.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:25 AM
Correction, it should be wesco, not weco, sorry
May 15th, 2009 at 9:25 AM
Norm,
I’m interested in hearing your predictions in terms of a correction for Saskatoon. How much of a correction would make Saskatoon affordable again for a $90k/per income family with 2 or 3 children? In addition, would you know what the average take home per household is in Saskatoon?
May 15th, 2009 at 9:26 AM
Ooh a nice strong listings week, I like!!!
Right now it’s not shaping up to be a hot spring like the one before, it should be more balanced this time around. There should also probably be less of an influx of migrants/immigrants to SK this year due to affordability and lack of professional jobs.
Wesco,
I tend to agree with you. SK follows the AB trend, and since we took off like a bat out of hell our ride will end a lot sooner – whereas AB is just now starting to experience a correction.
Ultimately the sooner Canadians start learning from American’s mistakes the better off we’ll be. If our economy needs to be in the toilet for a couple years that will humble our attitude somewhat. Nothing we are doing right now is sustainable.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:26 AM
Well they just hired 200 nurses that will be immigrating here, and there’s a new company moving in to the new building across from the councourse at innovation place that’s looking to hire 200 engineers, that on top of the company already in that building (my wife’s cousin works for them) that is looking to expand by 200 engineers.
Point being don’t count on reduced numbers of people moving to the city.
I’m glad inventory is up, however I think there’s a good chance that more people are just selling to try and take advantage of the ridiculously high prices.
I think an indicator that might give a better picture would be the amount of time listings are staying on the market. If inventory quadruples but listings are still being sold in very short time, then it won’t likely be helping prices stay down.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:28 AM
Wesco,
A family with a $90,000 income is probably doing alright. I think about 30% of gross income to service mortgage debt and property taxes is a decent “affordability” level. With that income, that family could easily qualify for a $300,000 mortgage. With some cash down, it shouldn’t be impossible to buy a half decent house.
The most recent income stats I’ve seen from StatsCan are from December 2007 when the average income in Saskatchewan was $743 per week.
Affordability can be impacted in several ways including a change in housing prices, interest rates, and incomes. I was feeling like averages in the $250-$260 range were probably sustainable. At $260, average incomes can support an average priced home.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:31 AM
Jason,
I experienced the same thing as you as I learned what was happening to the market.
It’s turned into one giant rat race and everyone has allowed themselves to go greedy.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:32 AM
Chris,
I don’t think that there’s any shortage of opportunity here, that’s for sure. I think the problem is going to be providing housing opportunities that will encourage them to come. Moving from Calgary isn’t a real attractive proposition this year. People need to know that they can afford a decent standard of living if they’re going to be interested in coming.
Some would like them to just stay home, but that isn’t really the answer. This province has great opportunities for growth if we can get this housing thing fixed. We really need to get more land developed and build more homes.
There hasn’t been any real change in average “days on the market” with increased levels of inventory. While 470 is significantly more than we had at this time last year, it would have been considered a low level of inventory five years ago when not much was going on. I think it has to climb a fair bit higher for any balance to be restored.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:33 AM
Taking a quick,
look at the weekly stats posted by Norm, this months avg sales price should be somewhere around $280 – $285k. My calculations are rough as all I did was take the 4 weeks of review and added the avg sales price then divided by 4. There’s obviously a lot more to take in to consideration but it should turn out to be within $5,000 or so. That would be a $16,000 + jump in avg house price from last month. Only 2 months last year saw an increase of that size.
I’m interested to see this months final stats.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:33 AM
Northstar,
I can only imagine where it might have gone had you spent more time here pumping things up.
When I look at the sales transacted so far in March the average is very close to $300,000. SRAR will report on units “reported sold during March.” I’d have too add 359 sale prices manually to get that figure for you, so I’m not going to do that but you’re probably pretty close using the method you’ve used. Today’s reported sales should be all that’s missing from the equation.
Now, I know you’re not gloating but it does seem to me that you said something like, “$285,000 by spring.”
I think you win the praise for most accurate forecast.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:34 AM
Heather, the nurses are already hired and moving here AFAIK.
Not sure on the timeline for the engineers. However, immigration may not be what it was last year, but don’t fool yourself in to thinking that the housing is going to stop people from coming. People probably won’t be moving for minimum wage jobs, but there’s plenty of professional jobs and salaries are increasing to compensate for the increased cost of living (not enough yet but getting there).
Believe me I would love to see house prices drop somewhat and level off, but with all the economic hype around saskatchewan going on, I just don’t see it happening. I assume they’ll level off, but i don’t anticipate a drop (hopefully just less overbids, I would love for an overbid to be an exception, not the norm).
May 15th, 2009 at 9:34 AM
Norm’s not an overbid;-)
May 15th, 2009 at 9:34 AM
Chris has a good point about the professional jobs increasing in salary. I know of some people that have gotten over 20% increases in professional jobs in their companies. Some wages *are* indeed moving. I don’t know if it is widespread or just a few pockets here and there.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:36 AM
Chris,
Thanks for that. According to today’s paper 297 have been hired and 105 of those are headed for the Saskatoon Health Region.
jimbo,
lol! Keeping a close eye on me? Mine did sell on Saturday evening and it did sell above list. My “week in review” only includes sales reported prior to 5PM on Friday. This one goes on the books today.
Todd,
I think, if I recall correctly, that incomes rose about 6-7% last year which was well above the national average. SREDA is predicting about 8% this year for Saskatonians. If we can keep that pace we will continue to make gains on Albertans and it will definitely help affordability.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:36 AM
Todd,
a 20% increase would only be in the following jobs; realtors, home builders, mortgage brokers, some trades
When I think of other professionals, I think nurses, doctors, cops, teachers, firefighters, engineers, accountants, mechanics. I have friends in all these professions and I know that they have not seen a 20% increase. I think even a 10% increase is few and far between for these professions.
I agree that most wages are moving, but I would compare it just above inflation.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:36 AM
LOL,
I think it’s 1 Northstar post = an additional $500 in average house price.
To be fair, I did say $287,000 at the end of May. If you’re saying we might be close to that already then I think someone elses prediction might fall closer.
Although even if I am the closest, it has nothing to do with my experience, understanding of financial mass psychology, mathematical formulas or my 13 points to investing in real estate.
“I was just a lucky guess!”
May 15th, 2009 at 9:37 AM
Just a comment on attracting engineers to Saskatoon:
I am an former Saskatonian, and an engineer, who has currently lives in Alberta. I have been looking to come back to Saskatoon for the past year and a half. I have had some job offers, but the current salaries just can’t support the current house prices in the city.
I know five other engineers here, who have considered coming back home to Saskatoon in the last year, but decided against it as they would all be taking a hit financially to afford the same mortgage payments.
It comes done to the math in the end. If house prices stay where they are, you have to pay people more to attract them to Saskatoon.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:37 AM
I am also a Saskatoonian Engineer and I have also had job offers, but they just made the grade in comparison to Albert. Why would I take a job there and then live house poor? It just doesn’t make sense. Sure an 85k/per job is good but I can make so much more where I am and then commute to Saskatoon. I would love to be there everyday, for the sake of my girlfriend, I just can’t justify it.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:37 AM
Ted & Wesco,
For engineers that’s saying a lot. You guys get paid pretty decent coin, and to be hesitant on returning to Saskatoon says something about our affordability. I’m sure next year Saskatoon will look much more inviting.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:38 AM
Ted & Wesco
Send your CV to Hatch energy they are setting up an office in Saskatoon. They pay the same as you would make in Calgary.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:39 AM
Sounds like we’re not doing very well at recruiting engineers.
Thanks for posting the tip Tom!
May 15th, 2009 at 9:39 AM
an excellent detailed report. i think my vancouver viewers will enjoy this post, so will link to it.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:39 AM
Hey Norm,
And you guys think you got pricing problems.
I just came off an Multiple 8 Offer shift. Good day for my folks but there are 7 others who feel blue tonight.
I thought I had seen the last of those nightmares and here I was in the middle of one. Rumor on the street has it that multiples are back in vogue.
God bless insanity and low interest rates.
BTW – it was a 12% premium over ask that took the prize. All cash, no conditions. Yah gotta love it.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:40 AM
Last Friday night, I went to a meeting put together by Shannon Christensen. She’s a homeowner who isn’t directly affected by the housing crisis, but is deeply concerned with the city’s (and the province’s) lack of concern and blatant ineptitude with this very important issue. I just received this email from her, and I wanted to post it here, in the hopes that any of us who are concerned about the low vacancy rate in this city and the number of pending condo-conversions that could be approved could have a chance to act and write a letter to the city by 5PM today.
I apologize for the short notice–in hindsight, I wish I was more on the ball on this one, but here we are…
PLEASE READ THIS, AND WRITE TO CITY COUNCIL!!!
===============================================
Good morning,
If you are having difficulty finding a place to live or if your rent has been increased I’d like to suggest that you send your concerns to City Council.
You can use the contact form on the city’s web site to do this:
http://saskatoon.ca/org/clerks_office/council/council_write_a_letter.asp
The next Council meeting is April 7. You must send your letters today, April 1st before 5:00 pm.
Your letter does not have to be long. A brief summary of your concerns is all that’s required. You may also want to point out if/how much your rent has increased in the last 12 – 18 months.
Also, be clear about what you are asking from Council. For example, if you are writing to ask them NOT to approve the 21 condo conversion applications, state that.
Just a reminder that the city does not have authority to implement rent control. That is a provincial issue. We’ll keep you updated on this.
As soon as David Forbes, Saskatoon MLA has drawn up the petition to the City to put a freeze on condo conversions we will have it available for download. You can print it out, fill it with signatures and return it to David.
NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT. Don’t sit back and wonder how this will all pan out – we already know the answer to that question. Please take a few minutes today to send your letter to Council.
Also, even if you are not a tenant you can still express your concerns! Several people have sent letters to Council because they see how the housing crisis is affecting their friends, loved ones, clients or someone else they know. Others just feel that what’s happening is wrong. Every letter will help!!!
Thank you for passing our emails on to others.
Updates to come.
Have a great day : )
Shannon Christensen
===============================================
As SOON as I get this petition, I’m going to do my best to get it out to everyone I know. I’ll post a link to it on facebook so that you all can distribute it as well.
As Shannon says, now is the time to act.
Thanks everyone.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:44 AM
Jason,
sorry it took me so long to respond lol. yeah the bus will definitely leave this city and province to greener pastures (ones with less of a stink and i’m not even talking the farm animals).
I’m completely going to purchase Garth’s book as it is at least one voice of common sense in a society that seems to value people by property they own.
I’ve been out looking at condo’s as well and they are just SICKENING. It is sad too becuase in this city, the conversions aren’t even done correctly..let me illustrate my point.
Here is a condo, 139,000-154,000 in sutherland. Horrible layout, probably new carpet new paint, new countertop etc. So small you have to go outside to change your mind.
http://homes.point2.com/CA/Saskatchewan/Saskatoon/Sutherland/1554633-Real-Estate.aspx
A friend in Regina sent me another link that showed that IF the conversion is done right…a person can feel a LOT different about a small space. This following space has a fantastic layout, lots of seatign for the kitchen (becuase of design), high ceilings, and a DECK….for the same price AND is less square feet than the previous one. Just shows what CRAP there is in the market up here.
http://tinyurl.com/pxh8hd
May 15th, 2009 at 9:46 AM
George,
The wage increase was in a programming job. Not something that is directly related to the boom.
-Todd
May 15th, 2009 at 9:47 AM
Most of the “condos” are not in fact “condos” but simply 3 floor walk-up suites being sold at a ridiculously high price.
It’s so funny because the boosters get so bold-faced excited about what an amazing thing condos are. Nobody stops themselves to take stock of the real subject of discussion – for if they did it would go something like this:
“Wait – wha? That’s the ‘condo’?!”
Again, this is such a print-market it can’t be emphasized enough.
The quality of construction in Saskatoon has been clawed back on all fronts.
Building standards or not, there are still ways to make a home cheap and cut corners. Don’t put it past greedy people…
So then the reality hits that you’re buying an apartment suite.
I would never pay any kind of purchase-money for any of the apartment buildings I’ve seen.
That includes Winnipeg! They’re just not made for ownership.
Refacing the suite with an earthy tone and boasting the heck out of the most meaningless already present qualities doesn’t change what it is: an blatant ripoff.
Callum Captcha: “Canada doth”
May 15th, 2009 at 9:47 AM
Exactly. Next thing the city will do is start marketing sheds as the ‘new contemporary’ homes…
What?!? It cost $1000 to build? Steal of a deal if we sell them for $80,000.
Sad thing it’s about as worth it as the ‘condo’s’ are….oh wait…lets add on another 200 a month for condo fees.
Like I told a friend, I may as well get a mortgage for a Cadillac Escalade…afterall it’s NEW, probably has MORE square footage and has wheels….and WAY cheaper lol.
May 15th, 2009 at 9:48 AM
Robin,
Thanks for posting. I sent in a good length letter, so will my brother. We’re both affected because we rent. I sure hope city council and Atch start thinking about the people rather than the profit!
May 15th, 2009 at 9:52 AM
Here’s a bit of an update from Martin Been (who lives in the Milroy): please attend this meeting if you can.
====================================================
Greetings Everyone
The tenants of the Milroy have arranged for a meeting at:
the Parktown Hotel
Friday, April 4, at 7:00p.m.
room 140.
After meeting with various groups concerned with the housing crisis on Friday, March 28, we realize that the scope of this ongoing struggle has changed, as the court’s decision could potentially create and has already created a great deal of hardship on the rental community.
A round-table discussion will be “whether to appeal” the Court of Queen’s Bench decision allowing the city to approve The Milroy for Condo Conversion. The lawyer representing the Milroy, Mr. Andrew Mason, will be present at this meeting.
We are extending this invitation to everyone who has been affected by the housing crisis created by our municipal government.
Please bring any questions or concerns you may have, regarding this decision, to the meeting.
Milroy case documents including the Court Of Queen’s Bench decision are available at: http://www.dufourlaw.com
Martin Been
May 15th, 2009 at 9:54 AM
I think immigration will continue to fuel the housing boom over here, I’ve been in Saskatoon for 6 month having moved from Australia. I have real estate in Cairns, (northern Australia) and for about 2/3 of what I paid for that I can get a down town condo here.
Regarding the engineers: don’t forget intervac will be opening soon and looking to bring in scientists to fill that building.
The housing bubble in Australia is still waiting to burst (and that is 5 years on). There is some speculation we’re already into the next boom and no one noticed the bust.
I might only be in Saskatoon for 2 or 3 years, but when I’m sure my rent is going to go up, why wouldn’t I invest a little and actually live somewhere I can paint the walls and hang pictures whereever I like (for whatever reason I like).
For outsiders moving to Saskatoon the afordability here is what they could only dream of where they come from (well at least any Australians or Brits out there). The global real estate market is going very well. The definition of affordable housing for the younger generation is changing.
Sometimes it is wise to look beyond Alberta, there is a whole world out there and if you look at realestate prices for most places 5 years ago most have gone up quite sharply. And I don’t think most places will take as steep a dive as the US based on the banking system, most countries actually make sure you can afford to pay for your house.
just my $0.02
May 15th, 2009 at 9:55 AM
Sam,
“The global real estate market is going very well. The definition of affordable housing for the younger generation is changing.”
“Going very well” is not how I’d describe the global real estate market! Going well for whom? Certainly not for the average home buyer! For banks and investors perhaps. Not for families, the middle class, and CERTAINLY not for lower income people who work hard and contribute to society! YES the definition of affordable housing has changed, for the worse. Your mindset is like many other’s I’ve heard – ‘Saskatoon is such a deal compared to Europe, Australia, so and so, etc.’ Instead of beleiving that Saskatoon’s real estate is undervalued how about you start questioning why the cost of real estate in Australia is so expensive?
There’s NO reason why Canada, and even MORE so Saskatoon, should be a place where one can’t afford to buy a house for their family. Our country is vast, or economy is thriving, and yet the only ones reaping the benefits are the ones with the most money! At what cost to future generations will further deteriation of affordability bring? Who on this blog thinks we’re headed in the right direction? It all comes down to sustainability and we are all going get a HUGE D- on our report card!
Can you give me change for a loonie?
May 15th, 2009 at 9:57 AM
i think the reason the city keeps approving condo conversions is due to the fact that it increases city revenue via property taxes. The math is there. I’m sure if you compared the taxes on a 60 suite apartment building versus the property tax on the same building after it has been converted to for example 35 -40 condos. That’s 35 – 40 single family dwellings to individually tax. Isn’t that wonderful.
Perhaps there are some figures out there. There are a lot of extravagant projects that need to be paid for like river front developments, blinking lights on the Victoria bridge and so on. Does anyone else see this as a viable but not unnecessarily fair way to increase revenues? What does anyone think?
May 15th, 2009 at 9:58 AM
CG,
That’s certainly a good point. I don’t dabble at all in the “multi-family” arena, so I’m not that familiar with the tax implications, but a commercial agent in my office told me that taxes triple when a building goes from apartment to condo. Just a reminder though that the additional revenues do go to the public purse and would essentially reduce the tax burden on other property owners. How they spend it is another story altogether.
Heather,
I have to wonder if the banks would say things are “going well.”
May 15th, 2009 at 9:58 AM
Article regarding affordable housing on national scale:
http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2008/04/02/ont-housing.html
May 15th, 2009 at 9:59 AM
Norm,
True. But that’s their own damn fault! Poor management and risky investing.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:00 AM
I agree, and they should suffer the consequences of their bone-headed decisions. Just pointing out that things are not exactly “going well” for them as you suggested.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:00 AM
Maybe if the government privatized a few of the utilities in this province they could effort to work help homeless and work on infrastructure. The utilities bills are way cheaper in Alberta and you don’t see convoys of Enmax trucks like you see here with Sask Power.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:01 AM
Privatization only makes things worse – it condones a money hungry company with an unfair advantage in the market.
Rather than serve the needs of the people, it is now armed with a decisive weapon to gouge: Public infrastructure.
Privatization will only make the people more poor, count on it.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:02 AM
Yes I agree, I wouldn’t want to see much for privitization either.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:02 AM
Ok Alex why is it cheaper in Alberta do you think they get paid less in Alberta
May 15th, 2009 at 10:03 AM
Actually Alex you may be right if the PC’s privatized Sask Power the unemployment rate would go up because they would only need half the employees, but the cost of power would go down.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:04 AM
I’d like to see something showing that privatization has resulted in lower costs before getting into that.
The privatization of MTS here in Manitoba handed over a monopoly on communications infrastructure and nigh-exclusive consideration for municipal and provincial projects.
This has resulted in stifled innovation, outrageous costs for services and subpar overall network access.
In Saskatchewan you only have Directwest to act as your “what if”. Directwest is what happened because they wouldn’t privatize SaskTel.
Instead, a company was designed that publishes directories and shoehorned them into an agreement with SaskTel. The agreement?
People are forced to agree to provide private information to SaskTel or pay extra. That’s why it costs you to be unlisted, or delisted, or whatever they’ve changed the name to, to keep you confused.
Cup and ball. That’s the game of public to private corporations. How can they leverage their past to do the least possible for the most possible.
When I signed up for my phone line, the agreement literally hinged on my agreement that they could provide information to Directwest! Quite the impasse.
No thanks. All privatization does is introduce greedy people into the mix. It costs the people dearly in the end and the damage is irreversible.
I’d rather see a public corporation employ some skilled employees and service workers than turn into a methodical army of accountants and investor zombies.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:05 AM
Brian,
Maybe you should be speaking out on union issues rather than municipal corporations. Private companies tend to pay their employees absolute garbage and treat them likewise! Unions are in place to protect the employee. However, some unions are poorly managed. There needs to be a system for excising the incompetents and generating more efficient employees. The majority of people in unions are just as hardworking as anyone else – it’s the lazy and/or arrogant ones that give the word “union” a bad name. These same idiots are also responsible for poisoning the workplace environment.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:06 AM
Brian,
You’re comments are incorrect and uneducated. Case in point, SGI Insurance prices vs. private insurance in Alberta… in some cases it’s double.
Ultimately, corporations really only have one directive and that’s maximize profit for shareholders. They are, by definition, 100% self interested entities. Crown corps are, in contrast, setup to ensure that their shareholders (customers) get the best service possible.
Another example, Sasktel. Sasktel has one of the most robust and advanced technology infrastructures of all telcos in N.A. The goal of telco in the 21st century is converged services over a single infrastructure. I would venture to say that no other telco can offer Video on Demand (not just a bin of 5 movies, IPVOD can offer unlimited movies on demand, Sasktel currently offers at least 25 times shaw), voice, IPTV (this is important, content providers are beginning to talk about sophisticated digital rights management for HD content and sasktel is among the few that have the infrastructure in place to support that DRM standard), cell service, and home security. All of this infrastructure development was not by accident, Sasktel had service in mind when developing it.
Be careful what you wish for when regurgitating popular sentiment. Sit back and think about it… form your own opinion based on fact. If Unions didn’t exist, you’d be working 12 hour days without any sort of healthcare, UI, or retirement saving plan. Unions are the foundation of our quality of life today that you and so many others take for granted. Read.
P.S. I don’t work for Sasktel, just extremely proud of it and the rest of the crown corps. If the Sask party so much as lay a finger on them, I will lead the revolt.
J.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:06 AM
Johny = Spartacus
May 15th, 2009 at 10:10 AM
Johny.
The reason why you insurance is half the price of a comparable policy in Alberta is because Saskatchewan is so flat you can see the next car coming from 10 miles away. Plus you can sit on your front porch and watch you dog run away for 4 days….. LOL Sorry couldn’t resist.
Seriously, Auto insurance in Alberta’s bigger urban centers can be twice or more what you would pay in the rural areas. The reason for this is RISK. You have a better chance of having an accident, theft or damage in the higher density locations. In Alberta uraban area’s have less risk. In Saskatchewan, SGI just averages it out for everyone. So the people living in the bigger centers like Saskatoon and Regina are actually being subsidized by the Rural people.
I’m from Alberta, but I travel and work all over Western Canada. I did a lot of work down in South East Saskatchewan until 2005, (Estavan/Weyburn area). SaskTel must have changed a lot since then because it was the worst run protectionistic Telecommunication Company I’ve ever run into, even worse that Telus. I sure hope your right about SaskTel, because I may end up working down there again this year.
Don’t get me wrong of all the place I’ve worked in Canada, that SE corner of Saskatchewan is the best I’ve run across. Great people and lots to do, well in the Summer anyway.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:11 AM
Johnny and Neil,
Just a comment regarding SGI insurance rates vs Alberta insurance rates.
A major reason why SGI rates are cheaper than Alberta is because the insurance systems are almost completely opposite.
Prior to 1995, SGI/Saskatchewan utilized a “tort” insurance system. In this system the claimants received money for the level disability and pain and suffering they endured as a result of their motor vehicle accident. The longer they were disabled and sufffered with pain, the more monetary compensation they were deemed to be entitled to. With this system there was a significant amount of court and legal costs associated with SGI settling all of these claims. As a result of the high costs, the “tort” system became financially unsustainable and thus changes were made.
SGI/Saskatchewan converted to a “no-fault” insurance system in 1995. This no-fault system provides coverage for all medical/therapy costs related to injuries suffered in a motor vehicle accidents as well as wage replacement. It does not, however allow the claimant to sue or seek compensation for “pain and suffering” Pain and suffering is never a factor in how they are compensated. The results of this system is that insurance claims are often settled faster and at less cost for SGI. Thus insurance rates for Saskatchewan residents goes down. Around 2003, Saskatchewan residents were able to chose to be covered thru “no fault” or “tort” insurance. The reality is, that I believe 90-95% of all drivers remain covered under “no fault”.
Alberta on the other hand, is a “tort” insurance province, thus they face the same issues that SGI had prior to 1995.
In the end, my point is this. To say that Saskatchewan motor vehicle insurance is cheaper than Alberta because Saskatchwan insurance is managed by a Crown corporation and Alberta is privatized may not tell the entire story. The insurance systems are very different and you really aren’t comparing apples to apples. Prior to 1995 SGI wasn’t in great financial shape, thus they made a change to remain affordable and feasible.
Anyways, back to the real estate discussion…
May 15th, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Yes, I’m proud of our crown corps too, well said Johnny! SaskTel has infact been extemely innovative in their developments. I’ll be extremely angry if Brad Wall messes with them in any way!
May 15th, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Leave the crown corps alone, but allow competition in the marketplace. Insurance in Alberta is relative. I pay way less than I would in Saskatchewan, and many of my friends do too. This is do too the fact we are responsible drivers. Back in the day when I lived in Saskatchewan my insurance was way lower than it ever would in Alberta, because I had not reached the magic age of 25.
I think it is appalling that people are against private anything because they fear higher costs. There should be private insurance, and utilities. Maybe the government run companies may become less viable, and so be it. In a capitalistic society individuals should have the right to the service they want.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:14 AM
Our petition to City Council regarding condo conversions is ready to print and distribute.
We have also prepared a petition to the provincial government to reinstate rent control, which will be presented either to the newly formed Provincial Task Force on Housing Affordability or sent to Premier Brad Wall. On that note, the new task force is seeking public input. They seem to care what we think! Please visit http://www.socialservices.gov.sk.ca/housing-task-force to submit your comments to them online. Every voice counts!
See the attached PDF documents to print out the petitions.
The petitions are also available in .doc (Microsoft Word) format here:
http://www.groovity.ca/petitions
HELP US take action! This is an important step toward putting a stop to converting condos in Saskatoon and to the evictions of tenants who will not be able to find a home in a city with a 0% vacancy rate.
THE TIME FOR ACTION IS NOW – please pass this message on to your friends, family and colleagues. Also consider bringing the petition to those in your neighborhood (door-to-door) this weekend.
IMPORTANT: Signatures must be original and cannot be photocopied, scanned, faxed or reproduced in any way.
WHAT TO DO WITH THE PETITIONS:
A. Bring your petitions to City Hall on Monday, April 7th between 5:00 and 5:45 pm. Someone will wait outside the building to collect the petitions.
B. There are people willing to pick up your petition if you cannot bring it to City Hall on Monday. Please reply to this email by SUNDAY April 6th (afternoon if possible) to let us know that you need your petition picked up.
C. Drop off your signed petitions at the office of David Forbes, MLA before 5:00 pm on Monday April 7th:
Constituency Office
904D 22nd Street West
D. You can also bring petitions into the April 7th City Council Meeting (6:00 pm), which is when 9 of the condo applications will be addressed. Please arrive early so that we can add your signatures to our total count.
Please bring your petition along if you are participating in the Station 20 Community Walk on March 5th (10:00 am, 20th Street and Ave. M South) to have people sign it during the walk.
If you have any questions please feel free to call me at 384-5504 or reply to this email.
Thanks and take care,
Shannon Christensen
May 15th, 2009 at 10:15 AM
I just wanted to put in to the discussion on privatization vs. crown corp.
Here in Alberta there was a big push towards privatization along with increased implementation of user fees during King Ralph’s drive to improve the Alberta advantage. A lot of the hype centered around over paid government sloths particularly Liquor Board employees.(oddly enough I heard that sentiment expressed when I was in Saskatoon last summer).
I think there is some value to privatization if it tends to improve services, lower consumer costs and create efficiencies within the system.
After privatiztion and deregulation in the utilities sector)in Alberta we now have higher and increasing
utility costs, service fees for almost everything and taxes that don’t pay for anything except to build a nice surplus for the provincial government. (Conservatives of course)to brag about.
Sorry I forgot; we now have liquor stores on every corner and licence registries staffed by generally underpaid people and a government that attempts to download all infrastructure responsibility to the municipal government. And of course taxes haven’t really gone down.
I’m not against privatization but don’t look to Alberta as the model.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:15 AM
Privatization aside, it can’t be denied that a little competition is healthy. Remember how SaskTel gouged you for years and treated you like a nuisance before competitors entered the market? Prices and service have both seen dramatic improvements as a result.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:17 AM
I heard on CBC this morning from a lady in Australia who warned Canada against moving to a private day care model.
In Australia, they’ve actually had “box style day cares” develop.
Does that not scare the heck out of you?!
According to what she said, in spite of people getting money from the government to help cover costs, this one day care company has completely dominated the service and raised costs to impossible levels.
Overall, the quality of the service has suffered and there is rather unanimous agreement in the people that the meal programs offered etc, are sub par.
Would you care to guess where this Australian company has decided to break into the Canadian market?
If you guessed Alberta, you’re right! Because it is only there that can you ambush a mass of burned out slaves to greed. Only in Alberta will they continually fall for the free market delusion.
This is just another indicator of how 21st century market models are doomed to disappoint. All a business is today is a crank for investors to turn money out of. The workers between them and the customers have no responsibility to be passionate or innovative. Their only obligation is to turn money out with zero interest in the future.
Privatization takes companies that are mandated to have an interest in quality and turns them into just another corporation backed by greedy investors.
I long for days when planned obsolescence, walled gardens, persuasive advertising, stifled innovation and other artificially imposed reductions of quality are not the only methods of fabricating profits.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Alex, are you sure about Direcwest and providing information? FYI, my phone service is with Shaw and I pay $0 (that’s ZERO) for having an unlisted number. That was one of the reasons I decided to switch — I couldn’t stomach that Sasktel would charge me $2/month for not listing my number.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:19 AM
Ken,
There are some great points you made, privatization isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. I think most people are all about “the grass is greener on the other side”.
Norm,
You’re definitely right, healthy competition is good, it did help with SaskTel rates. But I still go through SaskTel for everything, my phone, cellphone, internet. I’ve gone through Rogers in the past for my cellphone and didn’t like it. I’ve went with Shaw for cable, didn’t like it. I just don’t see the benefit of going through other providers if they don’t offer anything better, especially when you can save with multiple services through one provider.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:19 AM
Heather, you are just being an idealogue when you say that non-unionized companies tend to treat their employees poorly. Yes, some companies have treated their employees badly but there are just as many that treat their employees like what they are — their most valuable resource. I have been employed now for 13 years by a huge multinational company and I make a great wage with great benefits. I’m not unionized and I don’t think I’d want to be unionized.
Sorry Norm, I know this is going off topic, but it just rankles me when I see people just saying every company is greedy and wants to screw people around.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:20 AM
Todd, the agreement is between Directwest and Sasktel.
Shaw has not entered into that agreement.
If you phone SaskTel support, the person on the other end will explain it to you if you ask enough.
He worded it as “SaskTel offers you a *DEAL*” by charging you extra to not be listed. Because you can alternatively contact DirectWest and they will unlist you for $7!
How noble, huh? Again, because people are becoming more and more complacent and disinterested in how they are gouged, things like this continue to happen.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:22 AM
Heather,
Of course, who you buy from is your business. Even if you stuck with SaskTel you’re still experiencing the benefits of added competition.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:23 AM
Todd,
You are generalizing my comments. I never said all private companies non-unionized screw their employees. These companies can make their employees vulnerable to problems that they would otherwise be protected from in a union. Please don’t interpret my concerns as “all companies are greedy and screw people”. There are many good companies, but equally just as many bad ones.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:23 AM
Said by Heather: Private companies tend to pay their employees absolute garbage and treat them likewise!
I disagree. It hasn’t been my experience in the companies I’ve been involved with that they ‘tended to pay their employees absolute garbage and treat them likewise’.
If I said that union employees tend to loaf off and not care about productivity or doing a good job, you’d jump at that comment.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:24 AM
Alex,
If business is so sloppy and consumers are so stupid, surely there is an opportunity for someone like you to find and develop some niche which could bring meaningful rewards your life, and the lives of those you choose to serve.
Something to think about.
The charge to be “unlisted” really drives me crazy. You would think that the Privacy Act would give me some right not to be in the book if I choose not to.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:24 AM
Ummm . . . great comments on privitization, australian daycare, and vehicle insurance all! I was wondering about the saskatoon real estate market . . . we’re just about ready to sell our house, and I’m wondering if any one has an opinion about when (within the next 2-7 weeks) would be the most oppertune time to list it? It’s just a small entry level house, but we’d like to get the best dollar we can for it. And no – I don’t think that’s greed, I think it’s simply sensible to want to save as much as we can on our new home mortgage. Thanks for your help!
May 15th, 2009 at 10:26 AM
Todd,
I have already touched on the issues involving unions, there needs to be better management, more incentive to employees, and a demerit system.
When I had replied about private companies I was angling towards the municipal vs private corps. I’d like to see a breakdown of private vs unionized wages comparably in different areas. Telephone for instance, I don’t see people at Shaw getting paid as well compared to SaskTel. I don’t know what company you work for, but try finding out the the comparable wage is to a similar company with union.
Pension is a very very nice thing, most people outside of union don’t get pension. (not where their employer matches each dollar, etc.) I’m always contributing to my RRSPs but I’d much rather have a pension. (or both)
So no, I’m really not trying to generalize all private companies, but humans are human. If a boss can get away with paying their employees low, not giving raises etc. they often do what’s best for the bottom line.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:31 AM
My company has a pension which has a defined benefit, which is rare in this day and age.
Also, think about this once or twice. Every dollar that the employer pays towards wages or any other cost, adds to the cost of goods that that employer must charge to customers. If the employers costs go up too much, they then have to charge their customers more. If they charge their customers more than they want/can pay, then the business fails and everyone goes out of work. The bottom line *is* critical to everyone being employed — believe it or not. If a company isn’t making money, it won’t continue to exist and the jobs will go away.
But (and I put this in writing for all to reference and throw in my face should I ever falter from this), I’m done with arguing with any far lefty regarding the proletariat and the capitalists. Companies are good and vital organizations in our community and a healthy business community is what helps feed both your and Alex’s family whether or not you choose to acknowledge it. There are bad companies whether they be public or private. There are bad unions as well as good. But I choose to believe that generally people are good and are not choosing to screw each other.
I am genuinely sorry for your lots in life and that you feel you have been hard done by with society. But rather than just keeping complaining about it, DO something about it. Change the system! Or, better yet, work with the system! Get a better education and a better job with better pay and benefits. Make your dreams happen instead of just complaining that these things aren’t falling in your lap.
I’m signing off on this discussion. I’ll be back for real estate talk.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:33 AM
Ringo,
Thanks for the shake. Housing issues are having a pretty significant impact so we do sometimes get off topic. Not sure how Australian daycare found a place.
I have been in the “sell” camp lately. There is little question that now is a good time to sell a home. An “entry level house” like yours will draw some good attention. Is there a further upside. Perhaps, but conditions are starting to improve for buyers. Last Friday, we were sitting with 470 active listings. Today, we’re at 532. A month ago we were at 370. Last year at this time we were somewhere around 250. Given the sharp increases we’ve seen, demand almost has to be impacted to some degree. All of that means more options for those that can afford to buy.
If I were getting ready to sell, I’d probably be looking to get the house to market sooner, rather than later. I think we’re going to see the percentage of “overbids” begin to taper off in the weeks ahead and days on the market increase.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:33 AM
Thanks Norm! I was thinking much the same as I read your blog often, and follow a lot of the comments often. Sometimes it can be quite a read, but I find it valuable reading. The opinions of others are often quite valuable, even if they are not the same as our own. Fortunately, we got a great deal (it’s true lol) on our next home, so if we get a little less than expected from this one, we’ll still be OK. Thanks for your opinion, and thanks for keeping your blog up to date!
May 15th, 2009 at 10:34 AM
It can get spirited but it’s far more interesting when there are some differences in the opinions.
Congrats on a “great deal.” Those are words that we don’t hear that often.
Best wishes for a happy ending on your sale.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:35 AM
Here is the fact of the matter. When our parents went to buy their first house it was not easy. In fact it was hard. When our grand parents went to buy there first home it was hard. So why should we think that it will be easy now? All people can complain about is how tough it is to get into the market. Before you post next time, do me a favor and find one, just one person who it was ever easy to buy there first house and i’ll print out this entire post and eat it.
Thanks
May 15th, 2009 at 10:36 AM
Zig,
Home affordability has changed since our parents generation. I was talking to my folks last weekend about their first house they bought in Calgary back in the 60′s. Dad said it was hard as he was just getting going in his career and was only making about $1200 a month, or $14400 a year. My parents first starter home cost them about $45,000 – a figure which they thought to be a fairly large sum at the time. That being said, their total home cost was approximately 3 x my Dad’s annual income.
Fast forward to today. The average income for a Saskatoon resident is sitting about 37,000. The average home price is now $276,000. The average home price is now about 7.4 x a persons annual income. In our parents generation it was an option as whether both parents decided to work, but home ownership was still possible on a single income. Now it has almost become a necessity to have two incomes, as well as inventions like the 40 year mortgage to make things affordable. How can you say affordability hasn’t taken a hit over the years?
May 15th, 2009 at 10:37 AM
Interesting report from Royal Lepage, according to these stats it is officially more expensive here than in Alberta.
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/business/080403/b040366A.html
May 15th, 2009 at 10:38 AM
According to the stats Norm has posted under ‘Saskatoon at a Glance’, the average family income is about 65K. If the average home is 276,000, then the average affordability is 4.2 x a family’s income.
Yes, we could argue about having one person stay home or not but the reality is most people today work. I think it would be great if that was different but it just isn’t. You have a good point that affordability has declined, but when you look at it as far as family income goes, it doesn’t look that much worse than what your parents paid.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:39 AM
PS.. I realize I’m out to lunch. When you figure in condos into that picture for the selling price, the affordability is much worse. I eat my words and my hat.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:40 AM
Here’s my two cents… how can we expect city hall to make any sort of wise decisions in managing housing issues in our city when they don’t really have much in the way of a planning department nor do they have any hope of recruiting and retaining any planners.
In fact I’m told (and am surprised that I’ve heard nothing in the media) that the city just wrapped up a multiyear job evaluation that didn’t account for market value. Resulted in big raises for clerks and such and red circled highly skilled positions for wage cuts (I heard up to 15% for some).
Someone earlier in this blog was promoting unions well here’s an example of how they can screw their members if idiots are at the top!
Although I suppose you can expect to see some openings in city hall that are offering wages to low to attract any decent skilled workers. Yeah! more jobs that don’t pay very well.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:42 AM
Todd,
The point I was trying to make is that back in our parents generation it was typical to have only one earner and they were still able to afford to get into the housing market at a lower income to debt ratio then we are today with both family members working. This, like the introduction of the 40 year mortgage, is sadly something people have grown to accept as the new norm. I myself wonder why this serious detoriation in affordability has taken place, and can’t help but think of whats in store for the next generation should prices continue to rise at their current rates. Just like our generation has come to accept that home ownership for the average family now requires two income earners, will the next generation require further financial assistance from their children as well to help share the burden of their mortgages?
May 15th, 2009 at 10:43 AM
Todd,
Since you are “signing off” on this discussion I thought I should have the closing statement.
You are WAY off base, you know nothing about me. Your arguement is terribly irrelevant when going off on rampages against left-wingers accusing them of being complainers and not taking any action to better their lives. You also love to put words in people’s mouths. Whatever you have implied I stand for, I DON’T! You twist everything I say. Either that or you are misinterpreting. Don’t act like you know me! I’m outspoken, I’m passionate, and I stand up for what I believe in. These are 3 of my qualities you can be sure of.
Contrary to what most people think, when I come on here to stand up for a cause, it’s not always because it directly affects me. My life’s been awesome thus far – I have a great family, husband, friends, and job. I don’t have a lot to complain about regarding my situation. There are many others I have compassion for and need help to change their situation. I believe everyone should be treated fairly, with dignity, and have access to the privileges they deserve. I fight for what I believe is right, and if you view this as complaining, you’re part of the problem I’m fighting against.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:46 AM
*whistling of the wind*
May 15th, 2009 at 10:46 AM
hmm, wonder where them monthly stats are….
May 15th, 2009 at 10:48 AM
callum,
Me too! Still awaiting SRAR’s report. Hopefully tomorrow.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Heather,
Todd needs a hug, he was not held as a child.
I am sure your a great person, but don’t give Todd the pleasure of your your soul filled feedback. Your passion is better used for the causes you profess to believe in.
As for real estate in Saskatchewan being at the same level as Alberta is mind boggling, considering the higher paying jobs in Alberta, and the greater opportunity.
Price will soon moderate in Saskatoon, as soon inventory will increase in Saskatoon. Speculators will sell in hoards and go somewhere else. The smart ones have started to leave, the others will soon leave. The ones holding on are waiting for some weakness in the marketplace, the smart once know that in around the corner. In-migration is slowing which will also bring up inventory.
For those effected by low vacancy and higher rent, will soon enough have some relief. I remember when the vacancy rate in Edmonton was zip, and the Mayor Mandel was dealing with the issue of condo conversions as many in Saskatoon are doing now. He said the soon there will be too many condos on the market, and developers will not be able to sell them. Many thought he was wrong and in the end he was so right. Who new he could read tarot cards. Maybe his prior gig to being Mayor was working on White Ave. as Madam Mandel. Also remember what Don Campbell said in the Edmonton journal,
“A lot of Albertans have made a lot of money in Alberta and they’re throwing it at places; there’s no way economic fundamentals are driving Saskatoon prices up 38 or 40 per cent year after year.”
If I was an speculator in Saskatoon, I would be wanting out. The smarts ones will be selling soon before the big sell-off. When Saskatoon’s affordability is at or near the same level as Edmonton’s, and the economy is no where near what Alberta’s is, you know the ol’ equity credit gravy train is running out of coal.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:50 AM
Smokey:
Maybe Mayor Mandel knew what the good people of Saskatoon should look forward to;
History repeats.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:53 AM
Todd, sorry to jump in after a few messages were posted.
I really don’t accept that “that’s just the way it is” excuse. It drives me crazy because both my fiancee and I have determined that it would be best for our needs if she could look after any kids we have in the future.
What you’re saying boils down to: Other people want to be greedy, so you must make sacrifices for their greed.
No thanks! They are the ones asking society to change, not us. So don’t go advocating restrictions that have no basis or merit.
You obviously haven’t thought the notion through.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:54 AM
Hey Norm, nice to see you in the paper this morning. Are you representing buyers again? I thought I read last year that you had weren’t representing buyers anymore but maybe I misread that.
re: Waldheim — wow, I can’t imagine having to commute 50 km each way every day, but then again I guess this is way more common in larger centres. I would think the current price of gas though could quickly make that prohibitive although I guess it is also good that some small towns are seeing resurgences.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:55 AM
Hi Todd,
I did start working with buyers as the market got a little more civilized towards the back half of last year. Primarily past clients, referrals and people with whom I have some other connection.
I haven’t been to Waldheim for a long time, but I have to say I was quite impressed by the amount of development going on out there. Contrary to the implication in the paper my clients motivation for moving there is not all about high prices in Saskatoon.
May 15th, 2009 at 10:55 AM
Alex,
Don’t bother apologizing to Todd, he’s no longer “with” us. ;’) We could hold some kind of memorial for him, unfortunately I’m all talk and no action.
Smokey,
I wasn’t aware of the dynamics that happened with Edmonton’s market, that is VERY interesting! Edmonton is already in a decline, Calgary is holding on for dear life but I think it too will fall. I suspect the only way our rental shortage will be solved within the next year is if there is an oversaturation of condos on the market, then people will have to rent them out. The only fundamentals that would continue to drive up Saskatoon’s real estate market would be pure stupidity, Don Campbell may have overlooked that one! LOL
All savvy speculators should be out or getting out – and I’m not going to feel sorry for the ones left high and dry. As Ken said, history has a way of repeating itself. BTW thanks for the advice, I’ll try and steer clear of any unproductive discussions next time. :’)
May 15th, 2009 at 10:58 AM
Heather,
When are you going to buy your house? It seems that you want a housing recession but you still want to buy..
So are you going to wait until houses drop and hopefully catch the knife at the right time or what? Are you going to be pissed off if your $150 house is suddenly worth $100???
May 15th, 2009 at 10:58 AM
Being new to this blog, I must say that this conversation brings back many fond memories of both living in Sk. and teaching basic economic systems to Jr.High kids in Ab.(we don’t teach that in Sk until post-sec. Why is that?) I am now a R.E Agent in Calgary (out of curiosity, did you know that three of the top Realtors in Calgary -volume sales & value- are originally from Sk, all under 50?) and want to thank you, Norm, for such an exciting venue. We don’t do this in Calgary per se as we are too bus working and filling our pockets with that stuff that some people on the blog believe is the root of all evil!
I think we need to think differently about money, costs and how to approach things like r.e. markets. My wife & I were in S’toon in Aug. ’06 to look at investing in r.e. We did not purchase at the time as the fundamentals were not in place, meaning the rents we could charge would not cover the costs, mostly due to the high taxes in the city that pushed the fundamental reason for investing to be speculative. Our Agent in S’toon also stated numerous times he would never pay what they were asking for the properties and suggested we wait (he has since apologized numerous times as our profits would have been 7 figures…)We are ‘schooled’ in this type of investing and have never based our investing on speculation, so we were fine not to purchase. We still feel this way. We also feel that rent controls make no sense, so think throught the implications of trying to control ‘greed’ by gov’t intervention. If the gov’t says you can only increase rents 10% per year, guess what every landlord is doing annually? Increasing rents 10% I own numerous properties in Calgary & area and do not necessarily increase rents annually. Is it because I am compassionate and not a good business person? Not necessarily. Since my properties have more than doubled, maximizing rents is secondary to maintaining na appreciating asset. Get good people to rent your places and you have no worries. The problem I find is the people complaining are often the ones I would never rent a home to – they have to go to the ruthless co.s that treat them unfairly because of the disregard for property. I suggest instead of trying to stop condo conversions (which has really helped drop our mill rate, which is used to divide the tax burden on the number of households and therefore our taxes in Calgary – yes our taxes drop even though the values go up!), buy one of these condos with the intent of renting it out for the next 20 years. It does two things: provides rental space, and creates an appreciating asset for you through goods times and bad! Then, when you have enough equity in this property, you buy another one and rent it out again. You take advantage of the greedy people as you buy when it is time to buy. Only sell if you must (this is the advice I give to my clients, and I sell about 100 listings a year.) If you have to partner up on your first property, that’s fine. Just don’t sell it when things go down (that’s when you buy). If you need to ‘cash out’, certainly do so to get the most – no one gives material possessions away – but don’t be greedy either. It is hard for people that have not experienced money to realize the stress that can go along with it. However, I come from a family of 4 with a single income in small town Sk where my parents home is still worth under $100,000 – tha tis even more stressful than losing $100,000. when I have it to lose. I agree – get educated, put yourself in a place to succeed. Otherwise, you only have the mirror to blame.
All comments are welcome, I just do not knw much about certain industries like insurance – just pay it as you do need it!!
May 15th, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Phil,
Sounds like you have a good grasp on real estate investing. To be honest, you sound an awful lot like myself. Good luck to you! (Although I think you might believe that we make our own luck
)
May 15th, 2009 at 10:59 AM
Northstar,
Thanks! Most certainly, you put yourself in the way of opportunity to get lucky! Now, the topic is the hot r.e. market in S’toon, and I think this will continue long-term (I don’t care about 1-2 year timeframes as I wouldn’t buy and sell within such a short time). I believe this as we will see things like salaries increase over the next 5 years, and significantly in some cases. There will always be certain professions that make gobs of money, due to the fact they have more risk (little or no benefits, no union to support them, etc. or specialization/higher education). With the increases in salaries and disposable income to come, it is time to get into the market. If you are not selling in the next year, you should not worry about the average sale price every month. In Calgary, a market I know better than S’toon, when we divide out sale categories, we see that our spring normally has price increases (10 out of the last 12 years); look a little deeper and most of our sales over $700k are during that timeframe as well. This certainly helps the average during these months. Mostly, it is simple supply/demand economics, so it stands to reason, we should want more condos built to provide supply so the demand can be met. If the demand is met, we have a normal market, If there is too much supply, we have a buyer’s market and guess what that solves? RENTAL ISSUES!!! Vacant homes or new condos become rental units and then we have housing that opens up for those that choose not to buy/are not able to buy. We have to supply opportunity for first time homebuyers to gain equity and get their feet on the ground. This can only occur by building more condos; they then move into homes once they start a family, thanks to the equity built up in their first condo. The Edmonton market is very soft, for a few reasons, but the greedy speculators are the ones that are suffering and the rental situation isn’t really an issue now.
May 15th, 2009 at 11:01 AM
tb,
Your comment seems to imply that me wanting a recession and wanting to buy are two completely opposite ideas. Shouldn’t it make sense that first time home buyers would want the market to recede some before buying in? As Norm has stated previously, there will always be casualties post-boom. People who have bought in at the peak, their property value will drop. Now, looking at the big picture it shouldn’t matter if your property loses 10-20%, because in the long run (10 years) you should make it back. But I wouldn’t be surprised if people expecting to make a profit within 5 years actually end up losing money.
All that being said, myself personally, I’ve given up on the resale market. I’m going to build. Even then, if I’m paying “x” amount to build, and our market crashes, the cost of building will go down too. While this would be disappointing for me, I am planning to stay in Saskatoon for a long long time.
So why do I care about where Saskatoon’s real estate market is? Because right now it is hurting a lot of people, first time home buyers, singletons, low wage earners. I’m lucky, me and my husband both have decent paying professional jobs. We still have options left, lots of people don’t. I don’t like what’s happening to Saskatoon and I’m going to fight against this movement where the bottom line is more important than the people.
May 15th, 2009 at 11:11 AM
Heather,
Regarding costs to build decreasing, I think that is a fallacy unless we see a real recession, as in the situation in the U.S. The labor costs and the materials costs will not drop even in slumping markets. The only variable that could recede is the cost of the dirt, and what happens there is the developer or the builders just hold onto it until it makes economic sense to go ahead and build. I would suggest that it is worse to build in heated economies rather than resale as the builders are generally slapping them up so fast that quality is compromised. To get into the procedures a buyer goes through to build, you usually agree to a price with the builder and if the market drops, you still pay what was agreed upon in the initial contract. That is what speculators hope for as well – if prices go up more than the builders predict their profits will be and what they can sell the home for (what the market will bear), they benefit by realizing that extra profit. This in my mind is worse than resale with competing offers.
May 15th, 2009 at 11:13 AM
Phil,
While I understand all those things about materials etc., I also understand why building costs have gone through the roof, and I assure you it has NOTHING to do with materials. Labour costs have increased, but contractors have been taking a HUGE piece of the profit. If Saskatoon’s market slows down, those contractors are going to have to give up some of that profit. As if they weren’t making enough already prior to the boom.
The builder I will go into a contract with once I get a lot does quality work on the homes he builds, not to worry. It’s the larger building companies I’d be worried about for quality, putting up cookie-cutter homes. Regarding the contract between the contractor and buyer, I realize that. I don’t know if you’ve recently evaluated the resale home market, but I don’t see how you can think it’s worse building in a hot market. For my situation it’s DEFINITELY better, but in general, if you buy a resale home overpriced, or if you build a new home overpriced, there is NO difference in what happens to either if the market drops. You’re still paying the same amount of money/month on a mortgage even though the market has receded.